flaming bomb ordnance mark

But, back in the 50s and 60s, few reloaded, and those who had such a Smith & Wesson Victory model didnt care. Oh, wed been here beforethe one they had called The Great War. I'm currently going thru a couple dozen stocks and happened upon this one. The ones made for Commonwealth purchase had 5-inch barrels; they initially lacked the US Government Property markings, and they acquired others when accepted by the various British services. WebTop of crossguard is etched with the flaming bomb ordnance mark. The design with the flames coming to a point was not adopted until well after WW1 (1938 according to Charles Pate in his fine book U S Handguns of World War II) Somewhere I seen a chart like the one you are looking for, I cant remember where it was at. The markings on my Smith & Wesson Victory model tell quite the tale. WebWWII US ARMY Booklet - Flaming Bomb, The Story Of Ordnance In The ETO - $54.25. Mine has both markings, so its one of the Lend-Lease revolvers. The barrel is dated to September of 1941, and the receiver features the flaming bomb ordnance proof and RLB inspectors mark, denoting military issue. Its still in .38 S&Wwhich is a good thing, because its amazingly accurate. The eagle head over letter/number stamp is the correct inspection stamp for most WW1 Ordnance items. With the reestablishment of the Ordnance Corps on 28 October 1985, it was an obvious insignia to choose as the regimental crest. According to the Army Institute of Heraldry, the crossed cannons represent the Ordnance Corp's early relationship to the Artillery. Learn how your comment data is processed. A 1913 barrel made by Springfield Armory that shows the exact same cirlce S in a flaming bomb. By Right side of frame marked with a clear U.S. and a "flaming bomb" US ordnance mark. There has also been observed several Colt 1911A1s that have the The result was a revolver that was less accurate, but superb at destroying brass. There is no final acceptance mark on the 1917's, but many of the parts have acceptance marks. If you have any insight please send me a message! WebDecember 2nd. S&W provided some 571,000 revolvers to the British, but of those, only 8,000 went to Australia, so that makes the non-U.S. marked ones rare. The serial number of 710XXX puts production of this rifle sometime in July of 1918. We did not fire this shotgun. This seems puzzling since they were previously a manufacturer The first production batches shipped to eager military buyers were simply the same M&P revolvers that S&W had been making, in the same high-polish blue, because thats what they made. how to disable coreldraw 2020 account sign in. 226 Williams Ln. Or not. And plenty who wanted them. Bulldogs are solid frame. ', USAOS2221 Adams AveBldg 5020Fort Lee, VA23801-2102. You state, the later top-break bulldog-type revolvers. Your help is appreciated. The wood shows minor dings, nicks and scratches. In all the highest places: her finance, her press. early Ithaca. July 19th, 1946. If you want to become a sponsor and see your banner in the above panel, click here to contact us. Ithaca pistols were probably the coarsest finished pistols of The original .38 S&W is held to a paltry 13,000 psi, out of deference to the old top-breaks. Some 1911s contractors that included 6,200 WWI receivers that Springfield had in October 26th. Theyre the hot, sexy redheads of the handgun worldand good for those who have them. Just to be sure, a punch mark in the flaming bomb on an 03A3, is an original barrel as well? Now, a brief aside here: If you do find any actual, real, .38-200 ammunition, or the later FMJ version of it, do notunder any circumstancesfire it in a clanky old Iver Johnson or other top-break revolver even a S&W top-break. How To Ensure Your Livestock Survive The Winter, 12 Cool Ways To Survive Off-Grid Without Air Conditioning, Simple Ways To Keep Food Cold When The Powers Out, Great Summertime Off-The-Grid Grass Clipping Uses, 10 Flowers That Will Attract Colorful Butterflies To Your Garden, Granderson: Alerts about spending at gun stores logical, Nitecore HC68 E-Focus Dual LED, 2000 Lumen Headlamp, Ecoflow DELTA Mini Portable Power Station Review. The origins of the .38 S&W date back to 1877, and since that time, the loadings here in the U.S. had been kept mild in deference to the original black powder revolvers and the later top-break bulldog-type revolvers. The design with the flames coming to a point was not adopted until well after WW1 (1938 according to Charles Pate in his fine book U S Handguns of World War II) and not until 1940 as an inspector's mark. It was relatively common back in the 1950s and 1960s to find the Commonwealth Victory Models with reamed chambers. Apr 2, 2019. One group in particular I have to keep as a bragging group: Five shots, 25 yards, over sandbags, all into a one-hole group. S&W Victory Model Specs:Action: Double-ActionCaliber: .38 S&WCapacity: 6 roundsBarrel: 5 inchesLength: 9.75 inchesWeight: 26 ouncesTrigger: 5 pounds, 2 ounces SA; 12 pounds DAFinish: Parkerized. Through our YouTube channel, we strive to educate and share the stories behind the artifacts we sell. Dated 1944/1945, Marked US, Used, Anvil & Block, New Reproduction, Blued Steel. Get Free Targets, Your email address will not be published. Each inspector was issued a stamp with the number/letter combination assigned to his use alone so that they could be made responsible for the items they inspected. The serial numbers on the frame, barrel and cylinder all match, as they should, on any prewar or wartime revolver, also known as the five-screw modelso-called because there are four screws holding the sideplate on and another on the front of the frame to tension the cylinder lock bolt spring. There are 3 proof marks on the Model 1917. Or not. The standard U.S. revolvers were all chambered in .38 Special, also known as .38 S&W Special. At the start of WWII, we had a problem. The butt end is deep stamped with the letter "P" and is then stamped over with the letter "S" arsenal mark. manufacturing process. According to the Army Institute of Heraldry, the crossed cannons represent the Ordnance Corp's early relationship to the Artillery. Mk.IV bombs (3,750 lb total) 15 x 500 lb G.P. These individual marks were assigned to specific inspectors. There is a sling loop in the belly and at the rear of the bayonet lug. STEVENS ARMS COMPANY / DIVISION OF SAVAGE ARMS CORPORATION / CHICOPEE FALLS, MASS. Posts: 39,854. james bay frontierOnt. S. 00 $10. According to the Army Institute of Heraldry, the crossed cannons represent the Ordnance Corp's early relationship to the Artillery. These guns were used for gunnery training. The stock is in very nice condition. WebToggle navigation. So the question is, why does this mark appear on a WW1 Model 1917CT bolo made by the American Cutlery Company of Chicago? The new trigger was adopted by Ones made for Commonwealth often have markings from British services. This stamp was adopted in late 1917 as I recall, but did not get into general use until March-April 1918. At some time this rifle was imported back in to the US. Please, see pictures below. Then, theres the L-arrow-19 marking and another arrow next to it, which is more info. Oh, wed been here beforethe one they had called The Great War. Bore Condition:The bore is dim with heavy erosion and pitting. http://www.coltautos.com/1911ci_126398.htm, Industry Announcements and Press Releases, Questions and Suggestions about M1911.ORG sites, Your Opinion about M1911.ORG and its sites, More than one of the above (questions pertaining to more than one brands), Commercial Colt Government Model, Ace, SM Ace, Super .38 and Commander pistols. So, enterprising hacks would pop a .38 Special reamer into the chambers and lengthen them enough to accept .38 Special ammo. After the war, Stevens was sold to Savage Arms on 1 April 1920 and full production of civilian firearms resumed. WebThe rifle retains the majority of the original military finish with handling and storage marks. England is in the hands of the jews. Harry Howland of Ithaca designed a stamped trigger There are two acceptance marks on this receiver. It's the US Army Ordnance Corps insignia. Save my name and email to use for future comments. The M1 Carbines made by Underwood from 1942-45 had several flaming bombs stamped in various locations on their little guns. The C arrow under Made in USA is the Canadian ownership mark, C Broad Arrow. Now, a 146-grain bullet at a paltry 600 fps isnt exactly the hammer of Thor. BTW, it was the only armament on the aircraft! The article originally appeared in the March 2021 issue of Gun Digest the Magazine. Luckily several US companies were finishing up production of British Pattern 14 rifles for the British war effort. Auto Ordnance 1828 Thompson in classic military configuration with bullet logo and diamond Auto Ordnance Cutts compensator, "L" style peep sight, horizontal forend, flaming bomb Ordnance mark, sling swivels One on the guard, the other on the tang just in front of the pommel. Click here for instructions on how to enable JavaScript in your browser. Sights / Optics:The shotgun is mounted with a small round bead at the front of the barrel. Legacy Collectibles strives to provide quality investment-grade military collectibles to an appreciative public. With a manufacturer mark of "E" indicating Eddystone and a manufacture date of 5-18, I think it is safe to assume this is the original barrel on this rifle. Most of our products are unique. FREE SHIPPING. The left side of the barrel is marked PROOF TESTED12 GAUGE / 2 3/4 INCH CHAMBER. As the senior guy I carried an S&W Victory .38 special and extra ammo on each flight. WWII US Army Booklet - Flaming Bomb, The Story Of Ordnance In 144960243961 May 11, 2010 in EDGED WEAPONS. In early 1942 & 1943 Ithaca did not have all the equipment You have to ask? The left side of the receiver is marked with a P proof, a flaming bomb ordnance, MOD. The screw heads range from sharp to slightly tool marked and serviceable. The Shell and Flame (a.k.a. Flaming Bomb) has been used by European armies for several centuries before adoption by the U.S. Army. In fact, it is still used by many countries in Western Europe, i.e. the Grenadier Guards in Britain. Setting up a Semi Permanent Winter Camp; Wolf and I Camp Out in a Brand New Hot Tent with Stove. It was a replacement barrel on a 1907 dated receiver and I doubt many of these barrels exist anymore. the200 gr was determined by the Hague Convention rules to be inhumane as it tumbles upon striking target. WebThe Halifax B Mk IIIa can be outfitted with the following ordnance: 15 x 250 lb G.P. Ideal for long-range shooting! Big Joe for sure,he will whip that gommy armed Putin silly with his bicycle chain. The right side of the shank is marked with a P proof and a flaming bomb ordnance mark. WebOther Tongues, Other Flesh By George Hunt Williamson George Hunt Williamson served with the Army Air Corps during World War II as Radio Director for the Army Air Forces Technical Training Command. You still pay the normal price, our commission comes from their profit, so you have nothing to lose, while we have something to gain. The white background symbolizes the Ordnance Corp's motto, 'ARMAMENT FOR PEACE. The standard U.S. revolvers were all chambered in .38 Special, also known as .38 S&W Special. It was decided best to modify the P-14 design to fire the .30-06 cartridge from the .303 British. Turkey is a country that uses the symbol exclusively within its Army. But this Victory model might well have ridden in a holster across the Pacific, dodging kamikazes, assaulting islands, or riding in aircraft. Various .38 Specials won bulls-eye and PPC matches for decades, and still do. Have a question? According to web informations (coolgunsite.com), that mark should be found only on WWI 1911, (one) 1911A1 Ithaca and (few) 1911A1 early Colts, not on Remington Rand frames. Ones made for Commonwealth often have markings from British services. 1911 Pistols manufactured for foreign Governments either in US or outside US. Some will have both U.S. and British markings. Replaces missing or faded cartouches found on U.S. Military firearms such as the Garand, Carbine or Springfield. On right side, under the SN and near the grip there is a "flaming bomb" similar to the Springfield WWI one. WebFlaming bomb Ordnance Department mark. JavaScript is disabled. Serial # check - Rock Island punch mark in front of serial #, 365635, hatcher hole on left. We buy and sell collectible firearms and militaria ranging from the Civil War to Desert Storm, specializing in WW1 & WW2. I dont know why they used a lighter bullet. Well, that, and S&W had hit the million-number-mark in serial numbers early in the war, and they had to do something. The technical storage or access is strictly necessary for the legitimate purpose of enabling the use of a specific service explicitly requested by the subscriber or user, or for the sole purpose of carrying out the transmission of a communication over an electronic communications network. Excellent bore, and no mechanical issues. parts. Colt used the flaming bomb mark for a provisional acceptance mark in the 1942 time period. Just behind the front site is the barrel manufacture's initial, ordnance bomb, and manufacture date. Copyright 2023 by Gun And Survival . The flaming bomb was used at times to designate the final inspection approval and acceptance of the weapon into the government's inventory. My best guess with this "6thH" marking on the underside of the stock is that it is us a Canadian unit marking, possibly of a Home Guard unit. March 19th. JavaScript seems to be disabled in your browser. We ship to U.S.A., U.S. Protectorates, and Canada, unless the item has restrictions. 1911A1s other than Colt. The technical storage or access is necessary for the legitimate purpose of storing preferences that are not requested by the subscriber or user. There was a war on. But, my two Plumb's have "Eagle Head Stamps". For a revolver thats now over 75 years old, chambered in a cartridge designed almost a century and a half ago, its a tack-driver. I flew as head spook on EC-121M reconnaissance aircraft in the early-mid 1970s. U.S.-purchased guns have US Government Property roll-marked on the topstrap. US Army Ordnance Corps origin. Caliber: 12 Gauge Overall condition as seen in photos. So, they added a V as a prefix and started over, with the Smith & Wesson Victory Model revolvers all being parkerized with smooth wooden grips. The original .38 S&W is held to a paltry 13,000 psi, out of deference to the old top-breaks. In 1941, the US enacted what is known as the Lend-Lease Act which provided war supplies to our allies during WWII. SKIP. Of course, there are other collectible handguns as well, such as the ones made for Allied use in World War II. The company was renamed the J Stevens Arms Company on 1 July 1916 and New England Westinghouse used their manufacturing facility in Chicopee Falls, MA to produce Mosin-Nagant rifles under contract for the Russian Czar during World War I. The L-arrow-19 is the inspectors markings, indicating that it passed its inspection after rebuild, and the arrow next to it is the property mark used by Australia after the war. Barrel without expected Flaming Bomb ordnance mark and date, showing what appears to be a weakly struck Winchester proof about 6" from the muzzle, along with a single V 3" from the muzzle and a P 6.5" from the muzzle. Click Here to view our Gunbroker page! U.S.-purchased guns have US Government Property roll-marked on the topstrap. Get the latest news and reviews from Gundigest.com. U.S. MILITARY | M1 CARBINE, M2 CARBINE, M1A1, U.S. MILITARY | M1 GARAND, ENFIELD 1917, SPRINGFIELD 1903, U.S. MILITARY | ENFIELD 1917, SPRINGFIELD 1903, 1903A3, 1903A1, M1 GARAND, U.S. MILITARY | SPRINGFIELD 1903, 1903A1, 1903A3, M1 GARAND, U.S. MILITARY | SPRINGFIELD 1903, ENFIELD 1917, Numrich Gun Parts Corporation This stamped The SB2C-3, a great improvement over the SB2C-1, had two Oldsmobile 20mm cannon mounted in the wing. I have not noted this Ordnance Shell and Flame mark on other weapons, edged or otherwise, during WW1. There is a minor surface crack on the left side but it does not appear to go beneath the surface. Oh, and its all rare collectible ammo, as well. By "Eagle Head" stamp do you mean the type found on the S&W Model 1917 revolver as shown below -. So yes.. millions have seen the insignia. I mean, really? The initial British load was indeed a lead 200 grain bullet, but it was very soon replaced with a jacketed 174 grain bullet to comply with the Hague convention. chefs choice meat slicer 610 replacement parts The Shell and Flame (a.k.a. That one calls for a 200-grain lead round-nosed bullet at something like 650 fps, which still isnt a magnum, but was deemed good enough for the British. (Excellent Condition), Conversion Rod (For M1 Garand M3A1 Combination Tool). Hello all, I was wondering if anyone has or knows where to find a chart that lists styles of the flaming bomb marking used on U.S. military weapons, and the dates used. They were set up to make revolvers, and there were plenty of uses for firearms that didnt necessarily call for something chambered in .45 ACP. I still havent found the answer to why, when they switched from 200-grain lead bullets to FMJ bullets, the British and their allies dropped the weight down to 178 grains. U.S.A.. This firearm is classified as a Curio & Relic. I believe yours might be a American Fork and Hoe (AFH) made bayonet based on the dual circle "Flaming Bomb" Ordnance Mark, and what appears to be the remains of the AFH markings above the "Flaming Bomb". Smith & Wesson didnt drop everything and begin making 1911s, machine guns and artillery pieces. trigger was fabricated by the Yawman Metal Products Co. of Rochester N.Y. Webtrapper. You are using an out of date browser. U.S. PAT. Of course, there are other collectible handguns as well, such as the ones made for Allied use in World War II. Your email address will not be published. (Im sure the next time we have a big war, well have the exact same problem.) Without a subpoena, voluntary compliance on the part of your Internet Service Provider, or additional records from a third party, information stored or retrieved for this purpose alone cannot usually be used to identify you. Replaces missing or faded cartouches found on U.S. Military firearms such as the Garand, Carbine or With the reestablishment of the Ordnance Corps on 28 October 1985, it was an obvious insignia to choose as the regimental crest. Fired cases in such a revolver are ugly and ruined. Magazine Pouch (Belt), Original Post WWII, New (Marked Rainer-Bell Co.), Magazine Pouch (Belt), G.I. the cut-outs under the stocks. The result was a revolver that was less accurate, but superb at destroying brass. However, its a tack-driver, and once I get some Commonwealth-equivalent ammo loaded up, Ill be stylin. He received the Army Commendation Award from Brig. According to the Army Institute of Heraldry, the crossed cannons represent the Ordnance Corp's early relationship to the Artillery. You must log in or register to reply here. Stamped on all manner of DoD-acquired weaponry or the goods to manufacture or support same, usually land warfare related. The Luger gets the glory. The U.S. Navy had a corpsman die from a dropped revolver discharging, and S&W underwent a crash program to redesign the hammer block. The serial number is also marked on the bottom of the barrel extension.
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