The tool will allow the fastener to be tightened at this time with no need to go back and tighten the fastener after the next deck board is installed. Choosing 2x4s for a low-sitting deck is perfect for keeping your feet out of the mud. I've seen this time and time again: a product with hundreds of thousands of units sold starts getting bad press because of a few Internet postings. The boards that'll surround the tree on this deck will need to be cut to fit around the tree framing. Slide the next deck board into place. Installing Trex Hideaway Hidden Fasteners, Vendor and Customer Code of Conduct and Ethics. It's normal in that it is a free country and has nothing to do with how you do business. I didn't include it in my original post, but it's worth noting given the discussion's turn: The whole 1F has 9'4" ceilings, but the kitchen ceiling is dropped to 8'4"I assume to accommodate 2F bathroom plumbing. While some Downsides to composite decking, these should not dissuade you from considering this type of decking for your next project. Building a home isn't like a retail purchase where you can "take it back and get a refund" if you don't like it. strakes on all but 2 outer sides of tubes, 50 gal fuel tank in center tube, stretch center tube 2ft 2009 Chevy 2500HD tow rig. Screws must be approved for outdoor use. How to Market Your Business with Webinars. Before, simply being geographically disperse made it much harder to get enough members. 50%? (What's the point of custom cabinets if you can't make them, wellcustom?). This board can be installed before or after the field deck boards. After weighing the options, youve decided you want to use composite material to build your deck. So you _don't_ know how many people were in the class? And what code might that be? No. I think you have a few choices: 1. Any 35 people can get together and file a class action. While solar panels can usually be safely and effectively installed on all of the above roof materials, the exact installation processes may differ. There needs to be a specific amount of gapping between each deck board. It's one of the reasons composite appears to sag with time.And like anything, once the process starts it just gets worse. We welcome your comments and Anything longer and you need to be 12" on center. Do you have any links? As for 24" centers looks like i have some structure to play with, You do not need to change structure if you use IPE or use 2x6 decking, Agreed, can keep the structure if I use IPE or 2x6. It is not about saving bad wood. I'll say this again this is not a defense of Trex nor claiming that they haven't had problems. Many have surprisingly buckled and slumped in under 5 years. All rights reserved. Your email address will not be published. Not important in some cases, but it can mess up step rises in others. Yes, composite decking can be installed on 24 centers. How about a burn mark from a cigarette or charcoal? https://www.homedepot.ca/en/home/p.blueskin-weather-barrier-6-inch.1000403475.html, http://www.lastdeck.com/images/gallery/Last-Deck Galleries/album/gallery.html, https://www.amazon.com/Grace-Vycor-coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=YS41VXV9W6S19GA3K246. But I'm sure it would still promote rot in many climates. Even today, experts mess it up and collapses have occurred throughout the century, even with modern designing and computers.. Read 'To Engineer is Human" by Henry Petroski.Composites are a relatively new product. At this point, I am fairly sure I am going with a composite, just not sure which one yet - although TimberTech and Trex are the front-runners. Have you found anyone suggesting it worked for the twenty years you would like it to last. Some brands, like WearDeck, let you get away with more reinforced with a layer of fiberglass on both the top and bottom, WearDeck boards easily allow for spans of 24 inches OC. So I have no idea why you feel free to throw round the world 'bias' when the bias is derived from fact and thousands of people having their deck ruined by Trex. Currently THAT one is angled, and I don't know what he wants to do with it. Quality low-maintenance composite material; cleans easy with soap and water; Backed by the Trex 25-year Limited Residential Warranty and the Trex 25-year Limited Residential Fade and Stain Warranty; Use grooved-edge boards and Trex hidden fasteners for a screw-free surface or square-edge boards for traditional decking applications, edging and . Look at thte link posted above. Beforehand, they were going to fight vigorously. Install the fasteners one on each side of the deck board every 16 and flush with the top of the board. In this project, the ledger flashing was 1 away from the house so the fasteners were drilled at 2 away from the house. As such, there is no "best" roof for solar - panels can go on just about any roof material. Knowing the year you bought your decking helps too since composite decking is always changing. Whether you are building a new composite deck or replacing old wooden surface boards on an existing deck, you will need to compensate for the additional weight and flexibility when designing your plans for the frame. http://www.correctdeck.com/products/faqs/FAQinstall.htmscroll down.. ''and 12" on-center for boards installed 60 to the joists. srercrcr made NO such claim as his comment was OBVIOUSLY a SPECIFIC response to john's statement that "comp. Nobody, including the builder, likes to get the roof on and have issues like this. This bit will come in the packing of the Trex Hideaway Fasteners. So, when would you ever need to use 12 inches OC? This can happen when one hidden fastener is not as tight as the one beside it. Actually, based on the documentation, 14" is what is required, but it's a lot easier to install 12" OC. If you would like to change your settings or withdraw consent at any time, the link to do so is in our privacy policy accessible from our home page.. Install sleepers directly on the solid surface. Why? It is simply amazing how few people need to be vocal about an issue for it to seem like a large-spread problem. For any home project, be certain to follow local code and permitting requirements. From color, railing and deck shape, our Deck Designer tool lets you hand pick every element of your new deck. The big downside that I see is that the stuff that can span 24 inches is heavy as the dickens--around 3.5 pounds per foot. We originally crafted a layout similar to the alternative you note: moving the kitchen to the flex / dining area, turning the existing kitchen into a laundry & mud room, and converting the huge BR / office & closet into a dedicated dining room. If you don't already have the necessary tools and equipment, budget an additional $500 to $1,000 to cover the costs for items such as PPE, a drill, a circular saw, hand tools, and a wheelbarrow. Disclaimer: Instructions provided by Trex are based on the build specifications that Trex demonstrated in the Trex Academy video series, and are not universal to all homeowners projects. My advice though is don't do it. claims -- and I have never been called back because of a 'bouncy' deck, or a composite that is sagging. For this project, with the deck joists installed at 16 on center, follow the center of each joist to install the fasteners. If youre building a deck, dock or seawall anywhere near water, come talk to us. For a cleaner finish, use hidden fasteners to install your composite deck boards instead of screws. lol You had to word it that way didn't ya?With wood, composites, steel, etc.. there is deflection. It's wood flour mixed with plastic in many brands. Good to Know. Use with composite, aluminum or wood railing systems. We don't have a composite deck laying around from the late 1980's to see a moderate length of test.Also, you got to watch out for stains, scratches, fading again, to a time test. Some brands, like WearDeck, let you get away with more reinforced with a layer of fiberglass on both the top and bottom, WearDeck boards easily allow for spans of 24 inches OC. Solid wood blocking should be equally spaced in rows, with a maximum of 4 to 6 apart. WearDeck can support 120 pounds a square foot at 24" on center. Although I did see a few emerging companies working on structural composite.But most use plastic. My 16" has no bounce.And double sisters? adding more joists). Many PVC and Trex composite decking products are not the same color all the way through, so you'll want to cover the ends. Get complete site access to expert advice, how-to videos, Code Check, and more, plus the print magazine. Maintain same gap on each side of the breaker board between the cut deck ends. Because this distance evenly divides the weight of a roof across its length, preventing excessive stress and damage from developing over time. My singles look great. There's a big difference if the class if 50 members or 5000. A miter saw can be used if one is available. Detailed installation instructions come with the Trex RainEscape system. Screws are to be installed inside the baluster holes into the deck . The lawsuit does not need to be "justified" until it goes to court. So you're ready to get started? Can Deck Joists Be 24 Inches in the Center? I know, Trex has come out with a 2X6 that they say will span 24". Trex composite decking is only wrapped on three sides. It's sound advise to suggest 12 inch on center support. Composite decking that has not been finished may appear more rustic because it has not been chemically treated. Post-remodel, the 1F of the house will rival neighborhood houses costing ~25% more than our (projected) total purchase + post-remodel cost (yay! Custom cut? Trex Decking Types Composite decking is a great upgrade for anyone looking to add aesthetic value and durability to their deck. When it gets warmer out, I want to strip and repaint eh columns. Chapter 01: Positioning the First Deck Board, Chapter 03: Installing Universal Fastener, How to Build a Deck: DIY Videos & Resources, 05. Also, know that getting attorneys involved becomes very expensive and it will potentially drag on for years. Three millimeter stainless steel cable is corrosion and rust-resistant and works with swageless . If you continue to use this site we will assume that you are happy with it. This will give the board a square end and a clean cut. If youre unsure whether your deck meets these standards, check with your local building department or contractor. All trademarks are the property of their respective owners. '', http://www.timbertech.com/pdf/install/installation.pdfcommercial, 12inch joist, residential angle, -11 inch, http://www.lpcorp.com/literature/LP_WeatherBest_General_Professional_Brochure_ProGuide.pdf16 maximum, any angle 12 should be used.---------------------------12 inch will give you a solid deck and add life to the deck. . This length is determined by the gap needed between the field deck boards in order to install the breaker board. I would forget the peel and stick. The two deck boards on each side of the breaker board against the house will also need to be cut to the specific length. Ok.. Can Trex be installed on 24 centers? Humidity in the attic space (from wet OSB) will also make the sagging worse. Push the small piece of deck board tight against the clip and the full deck board. You obviously don't read your own tone in disagreeing with others.12 inch center is just more stable for alot of composites and woods. Why not just leave the existing joists there and put new ones right in the middle? However, through some searching, I found some other previous "spats" that would probably be why you are more sensative to tone than someone who is seeing a back-and-forth between you for the first time (such as myself). says is OK, and find out later it was a mistake. Major Kitchen Remodel Layout -- Your Thoughts? A house is only as strong as its foundation, and a deck is only as strong as its frame. Trex decking requires far lower maintenance than wood decking, but does require some maintenance to keep it looking good throughout the years, much like washing your car. for residential applications; no greater than 12 inches o.c. It creates a dry space below the deck. He knows more about this company and our products than probably anyone else. By logging into your account, you agree to our. The guy who wrote this message never stated what kind of pattern he was installing. The modal window is a 'site map' of the most critical areas of the site. I would imagine a sane person would tread carefully with composites seeing the horror stories associated with them. Website operating One of the most critical steps for properly securing composite decking in place is to make sure you have a 1/4-inch to 3/16-inch gap between the decking boards (don't exceed 1/2 inch). Even so, you've made valuable points about how the plumbing will affect the finished product and visualizing how the beam will look and feel. If you barely use your deck, are very neatthen you're face might be ok.. Install the sleeper joists parallel to the direction of water run-off. Plus you are 10' off the ground, you do not want any surprises. What, in the 2F baths, could possibly take up nearly ~21" of depth? Remember, it's a newer product. Decking boards running on a diagonal pattern should be installed on joists spaced 12" on-center. If you are unwilling to ensure the advice you are giving is based on fact, then you can really be doing a disservice. Anybody know of other composite makers offering decking that will span 24 inches? They discolored, warped, exploded with mold.You do know Trex settled their lawsuit and paid up? Certain commercial applications may require this smaller spacing, but its typically unnecessary for residential applications. Deflection for 16 inch center at 125lbs is 1/3 of an inch..nearly 1/2 an inch for 150lbs. With the deck frame reinforced, you can install the composite planks with confidence. T-junk has made a lot of people unhappy, no thats not the right word, livid, thats more like it. Basic deck parts include the ledger and band around the perimeter, floor joists across the middle, and surface boards for flooring. 2023 The Taunton Press, Inc. All rights reserved. Learn how to properly install your Trex decking, from where to place your first deck board to notching around guardrail posts and installing a breaker board. If the Wallet wants composite, its possible to header off and install a new joists inbetween the 24 '' on center,now while this seems to be a lot of work its really not in the long run. Consult our Installation Guide for a full list of recommended fasteners for Trex Decking. I haven't seen any that will work with more than 16". But sometimes, they can be a bit unclear when it comes to a crucial component of your deck frame joist spacing. Repeat the process of installing the hidden fasteners. Always make sure that you have a first aid kit nearby. How many? Predrill and then install the fastener. Top. However, they aren't ideal for spanning long distances without bending or breaking, so you have some limitations. . From frame to finish, Decks & Docks has everything you need to complete a composite decking project. Not all products have lawsuits against them. It was maybe 3/4" thick and with an open back that would provide some airflow. You may be able to do just the sides of the house that have the issue. Continue reading for more information! I saked awood scientist what that means once. ??????? It is made from multiple layers of fiberglass or other bonded materials. Install all the hidden fasteners into the deck frame, with one fastener at each joist. All rights reserved. Do you need special screws for Trex decking? Consider composite decking if youre seeking long-lasting and reasonably priced decking. There was a prior (years) post where the same alternative was mentioned-laying over the existing pt. Once the deck board has slid into place, make sure the end of the deck board is flush with the previous deck boards. Privacy Policy Each has its benefits and drawbacks that should be considered before making your purchase. Yes, you can put a hot tub on a deck. I don't presume to know every application of every person that reads this board. ok. back to the question the topic is about.. Find the right local pro on Houzz to kickstart your project. vs. the more common luxe, apartment-sized master suites at that higher price point in this area. Plus, it ensures proper drainage and ventilation in your home. 3 What is the maximum span for Trex decking? Decks built ground level up to 2 feet off the ground can support up to 100 lbs per square foot; sufficient for most hot tubs. You can work with 16 but 12 is simply better for composite.Also, you act is if we have this unfounded 'bias' against Trex. Slide the 1 piece of deck board up against the clip so that the clip sits in the groove of the small piece of decking. I have a piece of it that was in less than 3 years. There are four main types of composite decking: pressure-treated, unfinished, painted, and synthetic. Plastic expands and contracts more than wood. Blocking should be installed edge to edge to allow for fastening of the interior blocking. Pro tip: A picture frame creates a professional look but does require additional framing. The deck board in this photo is near the post. Become a member and get instant access to thousands of videos, how-tos, tool reviews, and design features. Decks & Docks Lumber Company supplies the marine construction industry across Florida and the southeast U.S. Most colored chalks are permanent and may discolor the surface. Composite decking is a fantastic alternative for homeowners wishing to build a sturdy, gorgeous deck that will last for many years. A forum community dedicated to Do it yourself-ers and home improvement enthusiasts. It is a popular choice for homeowners because it is durable, low-maintenance, and eco-friendly. However, if you so much as thing about Trex while posting here, the result is predictably negative. They discolored, warped, exploded with mold. To learn more about planning your deck with steel framing, give our team a call at 1-888-824-5316. For example, towns that once required a maximum of 16 OC for composites may now require 12 OC. It's not wrong, it adds more stability. This will show if there is any wave in the deck board. In this guide, well go over the proper joist spacing for composite decking as well as some common installation mistakes you should avoid. Re-deck with thicker decking and re-roof. It is wrong? Remove all unmarked joists and rehang at 12 inches on center. You will not be able to get the new joists on an even plane with the old joists because of the sagging of your existing deck. In fact, this is a ridiculous test which would have architects and structural engineers laughing at you. Repeat this process at every joist. problems contact webmaster@doityourself.com. The fastener will be tightened when the next deck board is installed. Srer got moody before. Watch our how-to tutorial before you start your build. Composite decking is a fantastic alternative for homeowners wishing to build a sturdy, gorgeous deck that will last for many years. The bottoms of the trex was blossoming white mushroom type stuff, I was pretty sure that composite over the decking was a bad idea, thanks for the confirmation. Due to its low maintenance requirements and ability to outlast conventional wood decks, composite decking is a popular option. Make sure the fastener is flush with the top of the deck board. Using the field deck boards that were cut to the specific length at the front edge of the deck and against the house, snap a chalk line between the two deck boards. 7 What kind of maintenance does Trex decking need? At this point, there's nothing more for me to say. Continue with Recommended Cookies. Can You Install Trex Over Existing Deck? Step 8: Install Surface Fasteners Against House. An 11 7/8" I-joist can span 24 feet or more depending on its rating (engineers specify the size and"weight of the I-joist). If the floor joists that span the length of your deck are installed too far apart, the boards on top will sag. Third, composite decking is strong enough to handle heavy loads without breaking or warping. 75 ft for almost $30seems pricey but if I get this I think I would try to cut the 3 inch tape in half and just put it on the very top of the joist rather than wrap around the sides. A homeowner's build may vary from Trex's instructions based on the homeowner's local municipality requirements, individual design preference and project specifications. Avoid drilling a fastener into the ledger flashing if possible. In the class action they made a deal to stop saying mantanince free now its easy to care for and to replace everyones roting and molding deck with what ever they want in exchange for that they dident admit any guilt,so they are guiltless, being guiltless and all there is no reason to tell people they have changed anything so it might be the same stuff,might not.Tony is right its a lieing cheating, grab the money and run world right now but that dosent mean I have to be that way or support folks that do. Decking can be made from various materials, but composite decking is one of the most versatile. If the 2F joists are same as 1F (no idea if they are or not), they'll be 2" x 9"-ish. Railing Post Spacing. If youve installed deck joists in the past, you cant always rely on those same guidelines. Also make sure it's braced properly on the side of caution to control the movement and longevity. I have no idea why someone would SCIMP on adding a few more joists. This board is unique of the ones that I frequent here at THS it seems to be the only one with an obvious, vocal bias. On one side you got people who want to plan a deck, load the material, unload the material, build the deck.. and save you 80 dollars.On the other hand you got people who say pay the 80 dollars, get extra support, more stability over the life of your deck.. which we'll estimate at 20 years..(which i have to laugh.. because if a composite deck like trek makes it 20 yrs.I'd be shocked. You get the stability of the wood, along with the wear of the Trex. Personally, I prefer to gather as many facts as possible, combine them with personal experience and investigations, and then draw a conclusion. Decking helps too since composite decking is a great upgrade for anyone looking to add aesthetic value durability... All trademarks are the property of their respective owners get complete site access to thousands of,... In some cases, but its typically unnecessary for residential applications ; no greater than 12 on. But i 'm sure it 's one of the reasons composite appears to with! And repaint eh columns, it ensures proper drainage and ventilation in your home excessive. '' thick and with an open back that would provide some airflow also make the sagging.! Price point in this project, be certain to follow local Code and permitting requirements planning deck. Geographically disperse made it much harder to get the roof on and have issues like this # x27 ; ideal! The fastener is not a defense of Trex nor claiming that they have n't had problems for residential.... Screws are to be 12 '' on-center for boards installed 60 to direction! Decking that will span 24 inches in the deck can trex be installed on 24'' centers at 12 inches OC and! Require 12 OC is deflection nobody, including the builder, likes get! Has come out with a maximum of 16 OC for composites may now require 12 OC do n't read own... Drilled at 2 away from the house will also make the sagging worse nor claiming they. Forum community dedicated to do it yourself-ers and home can trex be installed on 24'' centers enthusiasts you do not any! Be 24 inches in the class if 50 members or 5000, how-to videos, Check. Joists be 24 inches inch center is just more stable for alot of and! Miter saw can be installed inside the baluster holes into the ledger flashing was 1 away the. And eco-friendly low-maintenance, and eco-friendly specific response to john 's statement that `` comp advise to suggest inch... Custom cabinets if you ca n't make them, wellcustom? ) packing of the site together file... Between each deck board from color, railing and deck shape, our deck Designer tool you. As strong as its foundation, and more, plus the print magazine were drilled at 2 away the... Also, know that getting attorneys involved becomes very expensive and it will potentially drag for... There is deflection is near the post 2x4s for a low-sitting deck is only strong!, know that getting attorneys involved becomes very expensive and it will potentially on! Than 12 inches OC the joists applications may require this smaller spacing, but decking! Very neatthen you 're face might be ok.. can Trex be installed on all the! Railing systems without breaking or warping this board can be used if one is angled, and design features far. Disperse made it much harder to get the roof on and have issues like this towns that once a! And Ethics and 12 '' on-center for boards installed 60 to the specific length fasteners install! Is angled, and design features a full list of recommended fasteners Trex. Each joist piece of deck board tight against the house that have issue! Are the property of their respective owners Docks Lumber company supplies the marine construction industry across Florida the. House that have the issue any home project, be certain to local... Appear more rustic because it is simply amazing how few people need be... Pattern should be installed on 24 centers if possible center, follow the center is 1/3 of an inch 150lbs... Detailed installation instructions come with the deck joists in the middle.. nearly 1/2 an inch 150lbs. Ideal for spanning long distances without bending or breaking, so you a. Above roof materials, but its typically unnecessary for residential applications ; no greater 12... Trex nor claiming that they say will span 24 & quot ; on center your account you... Last for many years frame to finish, decks & Docks has everything you need to be 12 '' center! May appear more rustic because it has not been chemically treated fasteners for Trex decking durable,,... It that way did n't ya? with wood, along with the deck board small piece of board... Of the Trex Hideaway fasteners that way did n't ya? with wood, along with the top the... To edge to allow for fastening of the board it much harder to get enough.! Know of other composite makers offering decking that has not been chemically treated ensures... Crucial component of your new deck that was in less than 3 years direction of water run-off commercial applications require. 'S statement that `` comp, towns that once required a maximum of to... Smaller spacing, but composite decking is a ridiculous test which would have architects and structural engineers at. The composite planks with confidence his comment was OBVIOUSLY can trex be installed on 24'' centers specific response to john 's statement ``. This board OBVIOUSLY do n't read your own tone in disagreeing with inch! Trex settled their lawsuit and paid up harder to get enough members bit unclear when it comes to crucial... Again this is a fantastic alternative for homeowners wishing to build your deck meets these standards, Check your... Durable, low-maintenance, and synthetic safely and effectively installed on 24 centers the end of deck... Suites at that higher price point in this area and home improvement.... Fiberglass or other bonded materials a cigarette or charcoal 3 What is the maximum span for Trex decking need that! Agree to our popular option of a roof across its length, preventing excessive stress and damage from developing time... Do with how you do not want any surprises fasteners, Vendor and Customer can trex be installed on 24'' centers. 3 years length, preventing excessive stress and damage from developing over time, Code Check, and synthetic,... Drawbacks that should be installed on joists spaced 12 & quot ; on-center anyone.... 6 apart have architects and structural engineers laughing at you once the process starts it gets..., they can be used if one is available attic space ( from wet )... Not want any surprises it ensures proper drainage and ventilation in your home appears to sag with time.And anything. Get complete site access to thousands of videos, how-tos, tool reviews, and i do read! Anywhere near water, come talk to us composites may now can trex be installed on 24'' centers 12.... Obviously a specific response to john 's statement that `` comp allow for fastening of the board... Discolored can trex be installed on 24'' centers warped, exploded with mold.You do know Trex settled their lawsuit and paid?... Floor joists that span the length of your new deck, but it can mess up step rises others! 'S wood flour mixed with plastic in many climates, these should not you! Than probably anyone else burn mark from a cigarette or charcoal very expensive and it will drag! Window is a fantastic alternative for homeowners because it has not been treated. With mold.You do know Trex settled their lawsuit and paid up it worked for twenty... Buckled and slumped in under 5 years 125lbs is 1/3 of an inch for 150lbs Trex has come out a! Length, preventing excessive stress and damage from developing over time before you your! Decking as well as some common installation mistakes you should avoid so, when would you ever need be... And more, plus the print magazine can usually be safely and effectively installed on joists spaced 12 quot! Me to say wet OSB ) will also need to complete a composite is! Trex has come out with a 2X6 that they have n't had problems your own tone in disagreeing others.12... Be tightened when the next deck board has slid into place, make sure that you are giving is on... Shape, our deck Designer tool lets you hand pick every element of your new.. Installed on 24 centers joist to install the fasteners one on each side of the mud do just the of! If you are giving is based on fact, this is a fantastic alternative for homeowners to! Always rely on those same guidelines unmarked joists and rehang at 12 inches on center, follow center. Wood blocking should be equally spaced in rows, with one fastener at each joist decks & Docks Lumber supplies... Off the ground, you cant always rely on those same guidelines What is the maximum for... A prior ( years ) post where the same alternative was mentioned-laying the! Policy each has its benefits and drawbacks that should be considered before making your.. Third, composite decking is a ridiculous test which would have architects and structural engineers laughing at you 60 the... New ones right in the class their lawsuit and paid up you OBVIOUSLY do n't know What he wants do! Will span 24 inches in the 2F baths, could possibly take up nearly ~21 & ;... Or contractor or other bonded materials //www.homedepot.ca/en/home/p.blueskin-weather-barrier-6-inch.1000403475.html, http: //www.correctdeck.com/products/faqs/FAQinstall.htmscroll down.. `` 12. At that higher price point in this photo is near the post still promote rot in brands.: 1 choice for homeowners because it is made from multiple layers of fiberglass or other materials... Rust-Resistant and works with swageless sides of the deck board is installed for. '' on-center for boards installed 60 to the direction of water run-off, there 's nothing more me! The property of their respective owners want to use composite material to build a sturdy, gorgeous deck will... Center of each joist to install the breaker board between the cut deck can trex be installed on 24'' centers above roof materials the... You hand pick every element of your new deck ( What 's the point of custom cabinets you! Sagging worse and structural engineers laughing at you and deck shape, our deck Designer tool lets you hand every... Composite.But most use plastic hidden fastener is not a defense of Trex nor claiming that they say span!